Monday, March 12, 2012
Why John Piper hates the prosperity gospel
John Piper and the Prosperity Gospel - Popular Christian Videos
After being part of a family funeral in a Third World country, where Cargo Cult is thinly veiled in the expectation of "blessings" that will come from God as a result of a level of faith that places an obligation on God like He's become a divine slot machine, where a wife and mother and community leader was taken at a young age by cancer, this video that uses a message from John Piper has suddenly taken on a whole new relevance to me.
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Transcript of the video:
ReplyDeleteI don’t know what you feel about the prosperity gospel; the health, wealth, and prosperity gospel? But I’ll tell you what I feel about it; hatred.
It is not the gospel. It is being exported from this country to Africa and Asia. Selling a bill of goods to the poorest of the poor, “Believe this message, your pigs won’t die. Your wife won’t have miscarriages. You’ll have rings on your fingers and coats on your back.” That’s comin’ out of America!
The people that ought to be giving our money and our time and our lives, instead selling them a bunch of CRAP called “gospel.” And here’s the reason that it is so horrible. When was the last time that any American, African, Asian ever said, “Jesus is all-satisfying because you drove a BMW?” Never!
They’ll say, “Did Jesus give you that?” Yeah, “Well I’ll take Jesus!” That’s idolatry, that’s not the gospel. That’s elevating gifts above giver.
I’ll tell you what makes Jesus look beautiful:
It’s when you smash your car and your little girl goes flying through the windshield and lands, like dead on the street. And you say, through the deepest possible pain…
“God is enough, God is enough.”
“He is good. He will take care of us. He will satisfy us. He will get us through this. He is our treasure”
“Whom have I in heaven but you? And on Earth there is nothing that I desire besides you. My flesh and my heart and my little girl may fail, but you are the strength of my heart and my portion forever.”
THAT makes God look glorious, as GOD, not as giver of cars or safety or health.
Oh how I pray that America would be purged of the health, wealth, and prosperity gospel, and that the Christian church…would be marked by suffering for Christ.
God is most glorified in you when you are most satisfied in Him in the midst of loss, not prosperity.
Truth for the most part, but I have always found problems with Pipers theology, especially after reading his book "Desiring God." His axioms and quotable clichés often create reaffirming head nods even though the thought does not quite square with Scripture. For example he ends the video saying "God is most glorified in you when you are most satisfied in Him, in the midst of loss—not prosperity." To be honest I agree more with his first question. "Why is God more glorified in me in the midst of loss than he is in the midst of joy?" His final summation is man-centered, not God-centered. God being glorified is not dependent on our satisfaction, where in his statement, the polarity is reversed and it becomes about us, not about Him. Let me explain better.
ReplyDeleteGod is not glorified in us because of our circumstances, rather loss or prosperity. He is not glorified in us whether we suffer much or little. The only circumstances of life where we glorify God is when we acknowledge that we must have the Lord or we are undone, hopeless and lost. "Satisfaction" is a vaunting of the flesh, "empty" is place for the Spirit. My problem with Piper’s statement is what about those who suffer little and yet walk humbly with God. Is He any less glorified through them? Piper’s logic fails to arrive at the throne free of the base thinking of man.
I think you're reading something into it that's not there. I didn't 'get' the whole Christian hedonist thing until I sat through two full days of Piper's teaching, and it was in that context, without other distractions, hearing everything connected, that it clicked for me.
ReplyDeleteTry to start from this perspective:
If the source of your peace is God alone, then you are putting God first. If that's the case, then everything in your life will reflect Him. If that's the case, then yes, God is most glorified in us WHEN we are most satisfied in Him.
Now, those are ideals, like being fully sanctified, perfect and holy like we'll be in Heaven. Nobody on Earth puts God first, but Christians strive to do just that. Each time we put God first, He is more glorified in that, is He not? And everything is for the glory of God, but some things (actions, attitudes, etc) are more glorious than others!
If you can start from the presupposition that Piper's presentation is NOT man-centred, I think you'll see it differently.
Ask yourself this: do you really think John Piper would advocate a man-centred message? If you do, then I submit to you that you are not very familiar with John Piper's work.
Nothing wrong with that, but I'd be interested to find out who you do read and listen to.
When I listen to J. Osteen, I find that God loves me. I can live in his peace, trusting Him. God has a plan, or at least a rescue plan for our conflicts, pain and suffering. Suffering then has meaning. It allows God to show his power and love for us.
ReplyDeleteYes, there are problems and distortions of the gospel in these Word of Faith preachers. However, if my precious daughter goes through the windshield, I want to know God has her now - not just that God allowed her to die.
Somehow I find Piper's christian hedonism unfulfilling. I don't just want a God who watches and listens to me cry. I dream about the God who acts. I read about a God who acts in the bible. While I know suffering grows character and faith and I expect to suffer for the gospel, I don't see Glory for God when my daughter goes through the windshield. I see God's love when He redeems the situations of the world's harsh realities of life and sin through faith. So I see there is much Galatians type fruit of the spirit to living with prosperity gospel concepts that I don't see with a Baptist God who is theologically correct and completely distant from my life. There must be correction and adjustment on both sides.
The prosperity gospel is full of excesses that need corrections - yet God passionately cares for us. He wants us out of poverty. Poverty is NOT His will, it is a condition of this present earth and sin. Baptist's need to be more compassionate for others. What is your message to the poor? Just grin and bear it? God forbid it. We dont need to suffer with the sin of our past, our families, our world. God wants us to be His people and use our talents. God Bless us all!